Pakistan's Bhutto: "We Want Equality"

Shortly after Zulfikar AliBhutto ousted the governors of Pakistan's rebel provinces, TIME'S Diplomatic Editor Jerrold Schecter interviewed the President at his Rawalpindi residence. "If there was crisis in the air," Schecter cabled, "Bhutto did not show it. Dressed in a stylish double-breasted suit, he seemed self-assured and anxious to be his own man. He is firm in his belief that he has made important gains in solving Pakistan's economic and political problems. Now he feels there will be a 'magic spring,' for in the end the subcontinent must live in peace, he says, and politics, not war, is the way to win the peace." Excerpts from their 90-minute conversation:

ON THE OUSTER OF THE PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS: "The action that I have taken is essentially a political action. I haven't arrested a single one of those people in the National Awami Party who have got historical links with India on the one hand and the Soviet Union on the other. I don't want to do the Yahya Khan bit [a reference to his predecessor, who had arrested Sheik Mujibur Rahman, now Prime Minister of Bangladesh, for treason]. I don't want to brand people as traitors or indulge in recriminations and spoil the atmosphere. I will proceed with political surgery."

ON RELATIONS WITH INDIA: "I don't harbor anti-India feelings. I speak more in sorrow. You see, they think they succeeded in East Pakistan. They have not realized that they put their fingers in the furnace of Bengal, and their fingers are going to burn badly. Pakistan wants India's friendship, but not her leadership. We want equality. India should not have pretensions of becoming a dominant power. There are more people in India sleeping in the streets than any place else in the world. A dominant power is dominant inherently."

ON RELATIONS WITH BANGLADESH: "We are determined to recognize them provided there is machinery whereby we get our prisoners of war back. I released Sheik Mujibur Rahman hoping something like that would happen, but it went down the drain. We released the nightingale from the cage and nothing happened. Once bitten, twice shy. I believe, however, that the stalemate will be broken after the elections [in Bangladesh next month] and the framing of a new constitution in Pakistan. But first there must be machinery for the return of our P.O.W.s. There must be no war crimes trials, no persecution of accused collaborators, and the principles for settlement of our financial problems must be worked out. Let's really begin with a clean slate."

ON THE ORIGINS OF THE 1971 WAR: "If we had approached our problems with a little more vision and a little more generosity, the situation might not have occurred. You must appreciate that we were under military dictatorship for ten to twelve years. The British did give us their own cockeyed system of parliamentary democracy, but with the military dictatorship, people lost that sense of participation, and decisions were taken without consultation and accountability. The military went on a spree [in East Pakistan] that they couldn't control. If they had given that operation political and economic direction, it would have been settled."

ON THE U.S. "TILT" TOWARD PAKISTAN: "What tilt? Secretary of State William Rogers, just before the Indian invasion, said that 'we are not going to interfere if there is war on the subcontinent.' From the mouth of the Secretary of State saying the U.S. would not take part, India was assured that the mutual security pact and the alliance would not be invoked."

ON THE U.S. ROLE ON THE SUBCONTINENT: "Much will depend on the U.S. attitude in dealing with the Chinese and the Russians. If you put a visionary Wilsonian content into your policy without seeking immediate benefit, then I see a much bigger role for the U.S. If you see the problems of the subcontinent from a narrow point of view, then, of course, the Russians will take full advantage. The Chinese will not be able to do anything effective for some time to come."

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