Church: 'Entering the 1984 Decade'

The investigations of the U.S. intelligence community are gradually moving ahead. Every week a presidential panel hears secret testimony about the Central Intelligence Agency's domestic activities. That probe was scheduled to conclude April 4, but the commission's chairman, Vice President Nelson Rockefeller, said last week that he will ask for an extension of several weeks.

House and Senate committees, meanwhile, are gearing up for investigations of the CIA, FBI and other U.S. intelligence agencies that are expected to continue into next fall. Last week the Senate committee asked President Ford for CIA Director William Colby's 50-page written report on the agency's domestic activities and for a summary of his conversation with Ford in which Colby is believed to have dealt with CIA assassination attempts. Ford made no response. According to Senate Committee Chairman Frank Church of Idaho, however, Ford has earlier expressed the hope that a procedure "that would be satisfactory" could be worked out for turning over evidence.

Thus far Church has found the Administration to be cooperative. In an interview last week with TIME Correspondent Simmons Fentress, he said that FBI Director Clarence Kelley "has expedited clearances for the committee's staff, and Colby has advised all CIA employees that the agreement binding them not to reveal their work or other confidential information will be waived with respect to the committee." Church predicted that the committee will hold its public hearings this summer. Other highlights of the interview:

Q. To what extent will your Senate hearings be public?

A. The rule of thumb will be to hold public hearings whenever we can and closed hearings whenever we must. Charges concerning illegal operations against American citizens should be publicly discussed and any unlawful action should be revealed. On the other hand, there are some areas that must be handled in executive session, such as covert operations abroad, the revelation of which would injure our relations with foreign governments or impair sources of information or imperil agents in the field.

Q. There have been reports that the CIA either planned or carried out the murder of foreign heads of state. Can this ever be justified?

A. No. In the absence of war, no Government agency can be given license to murder. The President is not a glorified Godfather.

Q. If your committee finds out that assassination did occur, would it recommend criminal prosecution or impeachment of officials?

A. Yes, this is possible.

However, I don't view the investigation as a man hunt.

We know that there are gray areas in the law relating to intelligence that need clarification. Ex post facto laws are an abomination, and this committee is not a court. Its purpose is to conduct a searching review of what may have gone amiss, with the objective of strengthening the law so that any misdeeds do not occur again.

Q. What kind of congressional oversight would you like to see?

A. I am not sure that there is any oversight by the Congress that will prove to be wholly satisfactory. It may be that we can improve congressional oversight. Perhaps we can also more sharply delineate the jurisdiction between the CIA, the FBI and the military agencies so as to minimize the overlap that may now exist. We might prohibit certain kinds of operations: assassination is one possibility. But I don't think that these improvements would be permanent remedies. Possibly we may have to conduct a periodic investigation of the federal police and intelligence agencies.

Q. If a President and a CIA director agreed to keep information from Congress, congressional oversight could not be very meaningful, could it?

A. I suppose that such secrets can be kept for a time, but in our society they cannot be kept forever. These are agencies that find their honor in the way they uphold the law. Nothing is more ruinous to them than actions that violate the very law they are entrusted to enforce. If the laws are not constructed in such a way as to confine our police and intelligence agencies to their legitimate work, then the days are numbered for freedom in this country. I am very much opposed to the Government's constantly looking over every citizen's shoulder spying on his day-to-day activities, opening his mail, compiling dossiers on his personal life. We have entered the decade, you know, that ends with 1984.

Q. How can oversight be expanded and covert operations be kept secret?

A. The law requires that any covert operation be revealed to several different congressional committees. As a result, I am told by certain spokesmen of the Administration, covert operations now have been terminated. But I am not one who believes that we can simply forbid all covert actions, because I cannot foresee future circumstances. We must look for ways to limit covert activity to matters that really relate to the security of the country. I believe that we can find a formula that will bring covert activity into line with our traditional principles. For example, there may be a way to require an oversight committee's consent for certain kinds of covert operations. In any case, I hope that we can forestall a repetition of some of the covert operations of the past. I take strong exception to the CIA'S undermining a government that had been freely elected by the Chilean people. This is contrary to our principle of respecting self-determination. Chile, moreover, hardly constituted a threat to the security of the U.S. It is also impossible for me to accept the secret war in Laos. Nothing in the Constitution entitled the CIA to fight a war that was disclosed neither to the Congress nor to the American people.

Q. Colby has said that this publicity T and these investigations are hurting morale within the agency and drying up sources. What can be done about that?

A. Mr. Colby has also said that he recognizes the need for the investigation." The only way that such difficulties can be corrected is by a thorough investigation, which leads to remedial action. The sooner we get that done, the better it will be for the CIA and the FBI.

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