'We Object to the Israeli State'

If Syria's gains in Lebanon ever lead Damascus to agree to negotiations with Jerusalem, one consequence is assured: an immediate, enraged denunciation of the Syrians by Dr. George Habash, the head of the Marxist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. The most powerful Palestinian leader of the rejection front, Habash repudiates any action--including participating in a conference with the Israelis--that might imply recognition of Israel's right to exist as a state. This stance has led to a break between Habash and the more moderate Yasser Arafat, thus making the P.F.L.P. chief a rallying point for those fedayeen who might grow dissatisfied with Arafat's leadership of the Palestine Liberation Organization. Sipping amber-colored tea in a Palestinian refugee camp, Habash last week explained his views to TIME's Wilton Wynn and Abu Said Abu Rish:

ON A PALESTINIAN STATE. We believe that a united, democratic state in Palestine, where both Arabs and Jews will live, is the real solution. U.N. Security Council Resolution 242 is based on acceptance of Israel within its pre-1967 borders; within those borders, Israel occupies 80% of Palestine. What will Palestinians say to us if we accept a settlement that liberates only 20% of Palestine and does not let them return to their homes? Suppose they offered us 50% of Palestine? Would we accept? No! We object to the Israeli state. Nobody can convince me that Zionism is not racist. No Arabs can accept a racist state in Palestine that regards Arabs as second-class citizens.

ON TERRORISM. This is not the main line of the Palestinian revolution. We carry out such actions according to a delicate political judgment. The major criterion is that such action hits directly at the Zionist Israeli economy and not at a third party. While we are not enthusiastic about such actions, we don't condemn them. They are the result of 28 years of oppression and scattering and misfortunes of the Palestinian people.

ON THE P.F.L.P.'S RELATIONSHIP WITH CONSERVATIVE ARAB REGIMES. Such regimes are reactionary. The entire economy of Saudi Arabia, for example, is linked with imperialism. Thus it is hard for us to believe that the interests of such regimes are with the Palestinian revolution. They would like to make us so dependent on them that we could not take independent action. It is not our duty as Palestinians to overthrow those regimes, but we will cooperate with national liberation movements in those countries.

ON THE SITUATION IN LEBANON. The U.S. and the reactionaries in Lebanon were fighting to reduce the Palestinian resistance and to disarm progressive movements in Lebanon. These aims have not been achieved. Thus although we hope the cease-fire will continue for a long time, we are afraid that after a few months things will become complicated again. The rightists plan to try something again. We know they won't stop fighting until they kick out the last Palestinian. I hope that the Syrians will realize that what they are being asked to do by the Lebanese fascists is more than the people can take.

ON U.S. MIDDLE EAST DIPLOMACY. When Kissinger negotiates with the Arabs, he wants something for the U.S. as well as for Israel. He has his list. For every square inch the Israelis evacuate in the Sinai, he wants a concession from Egypt--to curse the Soviets, or something like that. We, however, regard the Soviets as an ally in our struggle. We regard the American people as our friends, but we consider the American Government as our enemy. That is why it is in our Interest to create as many problems for the U.S. Government as possible. That is why we are happy with what is happening in Angola.

ON THE U.S. VETO. We believe the veto is only temporary. Washington wants to squeeze more concessions out of the P.L.O., such as an open, clear and frank declaration that it recognizes Israel. The next few months will be critical. We see this as the suitable time to struggle to steer the P.L.O. leadership and the Syrian regime away from a path that may lead them to recognize Israel.

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