An Interview with Arafat

"I have very few cards, but I have the strongest cards

Yasser Arafat talked for three hours last week with former TIME Chief of Correspondents Murray Gart, now editor of Time Inc. 's Washington Star, and TIME'S Abu Said Abu Rish in the Beirut headquarters of the Palestine Liberation Organization.

Q. The Arab nations have designated the P.L.O. as the sole representative of the Palestinian people. What is it you want for the Palestinians, now and in the long-term future?

A. Our goal and our aim are to establish our independent state, our right to return to our homeland, from which we were kicked out, and our rights of self-determination.

Q. Can you accept a United Nations resolution stating that the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people must be acknowledged and that they have a right to a homeland?

A. What I want is a clear and well-defined resolution, and I have a right to that. What do you expect me to do? What you Americans did when you approved the establishment of Israel? Because this is a coin with two faces: establish two states. Why do you confirm one and neglect the other? I believe your commitment to the resolution that resulted in the establishment of Israel, and included at the same time the establishment of a Palestinian state, is crucial.

Q. Is Arab oil committed to the Palestinian cause?

A. Definitely. And do not forget that in 1982, according to American information, the socialist countries will be in need of oil.

Q. The Soviet Union?

A. Yes. In 1982 the energy crisis will be doubled.

Q. Are you saying directly that oil will be withheld from the U.S. and perhaps other countries if there is a failure to establish a Palestinian state?

A. Not exactly. Otherwise I'd be a very stupid man. Just remember that any complication for the Palestinian cause means a complication for the Middle East crisis, and also complications that the American computer itself might be unable to predict, including Soviet complications. Is all that risk in your interest just to keep on spoiling your naughty baby Israel?

Q. Are you willing to acknowledge the existence of Israel and its right to exist?

A. Why is this question always being addressed to the victim of aggression? The 4 million Palestinians have the highest rate of education in the Middle East, and yet they are not recognized by many countries. This is immoral; it is an international crime. What have we done to have suffered 30 years without a home, a passport, a nation, living as refugees, without rights?

Q. Do you think you can ever acknowledge the existence of Israel?

A. Don't ask me this question. I'm not going to put my cards on the table. I have very few cards, but I have the strongest cards.

Q. Do you have language that would satisfy Palestinian aspirations as well as allow the U.S. to establish relations with the P.L.O.?

A. Yes, the resolutions of the U.N. acknowledging the rights of the Palestinians to return to their homeland, their rights of self-determination and to an independent state. This is the international language, accepted by 126 countries.

Q. Is the language more important than the substance?

A. I have to remind you how much we have suffered from the ambiguity of resolutions.

Q. You say that peace is your purpose. Would you be willing to order an end to all bombings, hijackings and terror in order to achieve peace?

A. The Palestinians have nothing to do with hijackings. Hijackings are an international problem. Do you consider the resisting of occupation a terrorist act? You can't ask an occupied people to stop the defense of their rights without asking the occupier to evacuate their land and leave these people free. The real terror is the occupation itself. I want peace, but I want a just peace in which my people will not be refugees, will not be oppressed, will not be under occupation. This is peace. Otherwise it is surrender.

Q. Would you say the P.L.O. leadership is more or less in the hands of moderates?

A. We are freedom fighters.

Q. Can you be a freedom fighter and a moderate?

A. If you consider my struggle for my people a moderate attitude, then I am a moderate. I am controlled by one line, and that is the interest of my people, without concessions to Israel.

Q. There appears to be a Palestinian offensive to achieve legitimacy in the world. Is that true?

A. I don't like the word offensive. An initiative, yes.

Q. How much more is to be achieved?

A. A lot. We are cornering Washington.

Q. Cornering Washington?

A. Let us say including Washington.

Q. If you were to meet President Carter now, what would you say to him?

A. I would address him as head of one of the two superpowers who are committed to peace in the world, and second, as a believer, a man who has religious feeling and who secretly believes that the Palestinian people are entitled to just treatment like other nations. And as a believer, it is his responsibility to help restore peace.

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