A Mullah's View: "No Deal, Sir"

Mohammed Javad Bahonar, 46, an Islamic scholar who has been a leading figure on Iran's 15-man Revolutionary Council for the past year, sat with his legs crossed on the floor of his small apartment in Tehran and offered a partisan assessment of the current crisis: His fervent arguments illustrate the gulf between the Iranian version of the conflict and the view of it held by the outside world. As he talked with TIME's Bruce van Voorst, Bahonar fingered his horn-rimmed glasses like modern worry beads:

Q. Isn't the reaction in Iran to the Shah's presence in the U.S. out of all proportion to reality?

A. The United States insulted the Iranian national honor and the Islamic revolution by giving the deposed Shah a visa. The ex-dictator represents all the pain, torture, humiliation, deprivation and repression suffered for decades by our nation. And just at a time when Iranians believed Washington at least tacitly recognized this fact, the ex-tyrant triumphantly enters New York--a malicious, outrageous, insupportable insult to all the blood that was spilled for the cause of liberation.

By gross miscalculation or cynical design, you trigger a new revolution, and then you hide behind your customary legal nitpicking. You activated the volcano and now you expect us to help you out. We can't, unless you put right the insulting mistake you have made.

Q. But why all this emphasis on sending back to Iran for trial a dying old man who has tubes draining out his insides?

A. The people want the ex-Shah publicly tried because they want to prove to the whole world once and for all what a heinous criminal he was. It is the principle, not the man, that matters.

For you it is easy to say that the Iranians need a scapegoat and the regime wants to muster patriotic support. You are wrong through and through. What this nation has suffered at the hands of the Shah is no less serious than what the Jews suffered at the hands of the Nazis.

Then, when our turn comes, your measuring stick suddenly shrinks. Last year at this time, with weapons supplied by you and under the supervision of your military advisers, hundreds of innocent women, children and men were being mowed down every day. Now, you expect us not only to give up our quest for justice but even sacrifice our honor.No deal, sir.

Q. But are you prepared to violate international law to achieve your objectives?

A. Your insistence on the legalistic aspects of the embassy siege is specious. The Revolutionary Council did not do it. You deserve the credit for unleashing this rebellion. Don't talk to me about whether the siege is right or wrong. Talk to the very people you have provoked into this hysteria. You think you can get away with murder by hiding behind the law. The Islamic canon recognizes the right of an oppressed people, faced by a government that cites the law in order to betray justice, to rebellion. The Iranian people's occupation of the U.S. embassy falls squarely within this principle.

Q. It is likely that the President could not extradite the Shah if he wanted to.

A. The Shah has broken the law of the U.S. as well. In broad daylight he had Iranian students followed and even killed in the U.S. and Europe. He threatened them, took away their money and passports, arranged to have them kicked out of universities and did everything, often with success, to deprive them of the protection of U.S. law. Can the Americans afford not to look into this?

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