"Things Are in a Mess Here"

On the back veranda of her home at 12 Willingdon Crescent in New Delhi, Prime Minister Indira Gandhi last week briefly outlined some of her foreign policy views for TIME New Delhi Bureau Chief Marcia Gauger. Mrs. Gandhi declined to say what specific role India would play in the politics of the region since, as she put it, "before you can offer some leadership, you have to set your house in order. At this moment things are in a mess here." But then she added: "That doesn't mean we can ignore what's happening on our borders." Excerpts from the interview:

Q. Did you say you "deplored" the Soviet interference in Afghanistan's internal affairs?

A. I said I disapproved. I disapprove of any foreign presence. And that's a foreign presence.

Q. What other foreign presences are there in Afghanistan?

A. No, no, I mean on principle I disapprove of foreign presence in developing countries. [In Afghanistan] the Soviets say they were asked to go in. I have no way of checking whether they were or not.

Q. What will be the position of your government on the holding of the U.S. hostages in Iran?

A. I have deplored that. I am very much against the politics of violence in Tehran. So far as hostages are concerned, they have nothing to do with policy or anything [meaning, in effect, that they are innocent victims].

Q. During your campaign, you were quoted as saying that you would recognize the [Hanoi-backed Heng Samrin] government in Cambodia. Why?

A. Well, we think they have control, and what we heard about the last days of the other [Pol Pot] regime was just too ghastly for words--the pictures we got.

Q. What are your views on the American plans for military assistance to Pakistan?

A. Well, we don't view it very kindly. Pakistan has always said it's either going to fight Communism or something or other with the arms, but in actual fact they have used them against us. I think even if they are used against Afghanistan it's not going to contribute to peace in the area. When the government is as it is in Pakistan, there is also a danger that [weapons] may be used against their own people. So from all points of view we think it's a mistake. Besides, any kind of alliance which is against somebody always increases tension and creates problems. So this kind of linkup with the U.S., Pakistan and China I think is dangerous for our area.

Q. Is Soviet military and economic assistance a factor in your foreign policy?

A. No. We do take help from people, but we have kept a very independent nonaligned line. So far as our purchases are concerned, our effort has been to diversify as much as possible.

Q. As between countries?

A. As between countries. When I became Prime Minister [for the first time] our foreign exchange was at rock bottom. It was during my time that we built it up. So we were forced to buy arms even if they were more expensive, if we could pay in rupees. [During the 1950s, the U.S. would accept payment for weapons only in hard currency.]

Q. Then would you be in the market for U.S. arms?

A. Well, it just depends--we've never been against it; it just depends on what we need, what the army needs. And whether we can afford it

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