"You Spoil This Naughty Baby"
Yasser Arafat warns of an Israeli strike on southern Lebanon
The call came at 9:30 p.m.: Yasser Arafat, chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, would grant an interview that night. Two hours later, Murray Gart, a Time Inc. senior editor, and TIME Beirut Correspondent Roberto Suro were led by a P.L.O. representative through pitch-black streets, past a checkpoint and two platoons of soldiers. It was just after midnight when Arafat welcomed the visitors to an air-conditioned, wood-paneled conference room at his Beirut headquarters. He spoke of his frustrations over U.S. support for Israel and his fears of an impending Israeli strike on southern Lebanon. Excerpts from the interview:
Q. What is your main concern these days?
A. Our right to our country. Maybe you cannot measure what it means to be a refugee. But you can ask a Palestinian. All the former British colonies have become independent states, independent peoples, except the Palestinians. We were under a British mandate, but we did not become independent. This is the historical perspective of the Palestinian refugees.
Q. In the short term, how goes the battle?
A. It is difficult. The Israelis have imported military force, and it is American military force. They are completely dependent on that power, but they cannot survive by power forever.
Q. Is it more difficult now than a year ago?
A. I keep an American Indian here [he points to a small plaque depicting an Indian] to remind me daily that this is the future the Israelis are preparing for us. It is tough, yes, but not more difficult than before. In the confrontation last summer they used all their up-to-date American weapons, and in their bombing of Beirut on July 17. And now they are preparing for another round.
Q. You think so?
A. Yes, definitely. It is not I who am saying this, it is [Israeli Defense Minister Ariel] Sharon. For four days he made statements threatening us. We are facing this arrogance of power, this unlimited American help to Israel. And, I am sorry to say, I have to remember that after this big insult from [Israeli Prime Minister Menachem] Begin to President Reagan [over U.S. objections to Israel's virtual annexation of the Golan Heights last December], it was Reagan who retreated.
Q. What would you have suggested?
A. The U.S. takes this position because it feels [it can do so safely]. But for how long? What happened in Iran? What happened to Sadat? In my opinion, it was American policy that killed Sadat--the squeezing for concessions, concessions, concessions! And here is the result: the group that killed him was not from any other Arab country, but from his own army. And notice that they called themselves the Group of Aqsa [after the Mosque of Omar in Jerusalem]. To give you an idea of the importance of Palestine in the consciousness of the Egyptian people, remember that when the Israeli flag was raised over the Israeli embassy in Cairo, 1 million Palestinian flags were raised by the Egyptian people. You are losing your friends because of your unlimited support for Israel. You spoil this naughty baby, and this naughty baby will damage U.S. interests.
Q. Do you expect trouble before April 25, the deadline for the final Israeli withdrawal from the Sinai?
A. After the annexation of Golan, the Israelis said they were acting against the Palestinians and the Syrians. In my speeches I told them I was not in Golan, so why were they speaking about the Palestinians? There will be another round of [fighting] here in Lebanon. They make daily provocations. They have just shelled seven fishing boats between Tyre and Sidon, and destroyed four of them.
Q. They denied it.
A. Then that means the U.S. Sixth Fleet has done it. We don't have a fleet.
Q. You expect them to move into southern Lebanon before April 25? For what purpose?
A. In order, as they are saying, to break the backbone of the Palestinian forces. And also to put the Egyptians in a corner. It would be a good test for [Egyptian President] Hosni Mubarak. It will test whether he will keep silent or will move. If he moves, then the Israelis will not withdraw from Sinai. If he keeps silent, it will mean they are breaking his backbone too.
Q. Can you see any autonomy agreement preparing the way for a Palestinian state?
A. No. It is a trick, and that is why we were against Sadat's policy and considered it a deal against the Palestinians.
Q. You think the Israelis have no intention of giving up the West Bank?
A. None. They are declaring it day and night. All of them are against any kind of Palestinian state.
Q. Do you support Saudi Arabia's eight-point peace plan?
A. I have declared that I do. The problem is not the support of Arab countries but of the U.S. No single positive signal has been given from the American Administration on these proposals.
Q. But the proposal was put to Arab leaders, not to the U.S.
A. I am telling you that this is the most important point in the whole story: Will the U.S. give the Palestinians their rights?
Q. What kind of state would you like Palestine to be?
A. Definitely we will be very democratic, liberal, nonaligned.
Q. Do you intend to have a state religion?
A. We can't. Palestine is the source of Christianity, Judaism and Islam. They are part of our heritage.
Q. What would you like the P.L.O.'s relationship with the U.S. to be?
A. I would like the opportunity of contact. I would love to go and meet Mr. Haig.
Q. Mr. Haig?
A. Why not? He has just had a visit with Mr. Gromyko.
Q. What would you ask of him if he were sitting at this table?
A. Not to be biased. Not to damage American interests by spoiling this naughty baby Israel. We are not asking for the moon. We are asking for international legality, nothing more.
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