"I Didn't Know Chernenko Was Ill"

On the day of Konstantin Chernenko's funeral, TIME's Nancy Traver walked through the streets of Moscow asking many people for their thoughts about their former leader, about Mikhail Gorbachev and about their hopes for the future. Several of the citizens she questioned asked for her identification; one man threatened to call a policeman. The elderly were wary of talking to an American, the young relatively eager. Nearly all gave a strikingly uniform response: they knew little about their country's leaders and were not unduly concerned about what they did not know. "I'm afraid it is all a matter of utter indifference to me," shrugged one woman. A sampling of other reactions:

Alexei, 33, a mustachioed lawyer in a well-cut, ginger-colored suit, insisted on walking to an empty bus stop before talking: "As one of your writers said, 'There are three kinds of lie: a small lie, a big lie and politics.' He was right, so I don't involve myself in politics. Of course, we presumed Chernenko was ill, but who knew how ill? They don't give health bulletins here, you know. This isn't America; we feed on news from the grapevine. So it was a surprise to hear he had actually died. Still, things haven't changed much since the Stalin days. Ever since, we have had a more or less collectivized government leadership, and things seem to jog along comfortably enough. Who expects changes? And what kind of changes? By and large, one leader is much the same as another."

Misha, 23, a factory worker in new jeans and a light brown parka: "I haven't mentioned the death to any of my friends, and they haven't talked about it to me. We are all too busy talking about our own livelihoods. It's up to us to make changes in our lives ourselves, not to wait for the leaders to do it for us. I'm not in the least interested in politics; I didn't even know Chernenko was ill."

Yekaterina ("Auntie Katya"), a 90-year-old in a faded woolen coat and thick brown head scarf, carrying a bag of apples: "No, dear, my family didn't discuss the death when they came home; they were all very tired, so they just went to bed. Chernenko? Oh, we all have to die. They all die, and yet I live on. I'll always have bread. Why do you ask, dear? Was he a relative of yours?"

Galina, 43, a dark-haired and vivacious woman who is a doctor: "Gorbachev will have some trouble trying to oust the Old Guard if he wants to put his own younger men in. Unless he is very powerful, it looks as though we must do some waiting before we see results. Russians like to have a strong leader. As one of our poets wrote: 'The more you beat a servant, the more he will love his master.' Gorbachev sounds as if he is to be respected. He must be full of energy and have power behind him to have got so far so young. He did well in England, and he has two diplomas."

Nina, 87, a woman with two rows of silver teeth, dressed in a blue coat and woolen scarf, in Moscow for the day to shop: "I don't know anything about Gorbachev; I only know that we had bread under Chernenko, and we will continue to have it under Gorbachev. There is meat in the shops too. I have a pension, and Gorbachev won't take it away from me."

Sergei, 25, a blond architect in a blue-and-red woolen hat, a blue parka and jeans: "It's sad, of course, on a human level that Chernenko died. I didn't expect him to go on forever, so it wasn't what I would call a shock. But politics? Well, we only have one party, which pursues one and the same course, so I can't see that it makes much difference who came before and who will come after. At least Gorbachev won't die after a year, I suppose."

; Vasya, 15, a schoolboy carrying a guitar in a case: "Personally, I think it's a good thing Gorbachev is young; he's the youngest member of the Politburo. The others are all stuck in their ways now, but Gorbachev has his ear closer to the ground."

Lidiya, 53, a neatly dressed schoolteacher in a fluffy white hat and cream- colored coat: "Yes, Gorbachev is young, but then a teacher came into the staff room last week who was one month younger than Gorbachev and dropped dead of a heart attack in front of my eyes. Who would have expected that? So we can't say how long Gorbachev will last. He is a man to be admired, an intelligent man and a lawyer to boot, so he should bring back a little order. On top of that, he is an economist, or so the papers say. Yes, he is a man to be respected."

Maria, 49, an engineer, leaning against a park bench: "I didn't know Chernenko was this ill. I thought he had asthma or something. I live in a four-room apartment with my husband. We have a dacha and a government car, so I have nothing to complain of about Chernenko. I look forward to a quiet pension with no stresses."

Shura, 37, a bearded artist in a faded sheepskin coat, a fur hat tipped to one side of his head. He beckoned toward a darkened doorway before speaking: "Lenin was the only one who thought about us; all the leaders who followed him were ambitious. That is why Brezhnev let us live our own lives; he lived a pretty nice one himself, eh? I have a friend who knows people in the Central Committee. He says that Gorbachev knows what he is about, that he is with it. Say, let's sneak off for a drink. Why huddle here discussing politics? I know a good bar around the corner."

Volodya, 30, a small-town schoolteacher in a black jacket and black hat, riding a half-empty bus: "Real change means turning things upside down, and that will never happen. Lenin set the country in motion, and other drivers have stepped in to take his place, but they are all going down the same road and cannot change that. What does it concern the man in the street who is the latest General Secretary? It isn't we who choose them. So why get interested? When I was 20, I was involved in politics. Now I can take it or leave it. And, in the end, it is better to leave it."