But in Barrooms, the Debate Goes On

By Michael Walsh

"So what if Rose finally broke Cobb's record! Big deal! You know what Mickey Mantle says, 'If I'd a hit that many singles, I'd a wore a dress.' What's all the fuss about a guy whose big claim to fame is tenacity, not talent?"

"Wait a minute, pal. Let's be fair. For someone to get more than 4,000 hits is a terrific accomplishment. Look at a career .328 batter like Rod Carew. It took him almost 19 years just to get to 3,000. Like him or not, Charlie Hustle is on his way to Cooperstown."

"Maybe so, but if ole Ty had known that a hot dog like Rose would spend his declining years chasing his record, he would have played another five years and got 5,000 hits. Cobb was only 41 when he hung 'em up, and in his last season he hit .323. What's Rose's average this year, .266? And don't forget Cobb's other numbers--twelve American League batting championships, hitting .400 or better three times, stealing 892 bases, and all in 2,300 fewer at bats than Rose has."

"Sure, Cobb's numbers look good, but consider what the game was like in his day: no night games, shorter seasons, no relief pitchers like Sutter or Gossage, no black and Latino players to go up against, like Gooden or Andujar . . . "

"Yeah, and no drugs, no million-dollar contracts, no television, no mobs of reporters. You're right, all right, those were the days." /

"Let me finish, O.K.? There's just no way that Cobb could hit .367 lifetime against the likes of Bob Gibson and Juan Marichal. If he tried that tough Georgia-cracker stuff on them, they'd have taken his head right off, just like his ma did to his pa."

"That's a cheap shot."

"You're telling me? The point is, Rose is an all-around performer. He's played practically every position but pitcher, and he's good in the field. Did you know that Cobb holds the all-time record for errors by an outfielder? That's one Pete will never break. He had the top fielding average of anyone ever when he played in the outfield. And he's a winner. He was on World Series champs in Cincinnati and Philadelphia, and he has the Reds contending this season. Cobb was never on a team that won a World Series."

"Come on. The Big Red Machine of the '70s had so many great hitters that it could afford to hide Rose behind downtowners like Bench, Foster, Perez and Morgan. Heck, almost every time Rose has been on a winner, Tony Perez has been on the same team. Maybe he's the real superstar. Rose was washed up when he went to the Expos, and the only reason he's back in Cincinnati is to put hometown fannies in the seats."

"Hey, a Cobb fan like you ought to love Rose. He's a throwback to the old ballplayers. He knocks people over, and he busts them up, just like Cobb did. More than that, he doesn't flaunt his money, he doesn't whine about renegotiating his contract, and he's not a coke head who bawls that the devil made him do it. Sure, those Wheaties commercials are obnoxious. (I gotta say I think he looks just like Mary Lou Retton.) But nobody's perfect."

"O.K., I admit I'll tell my children that I saw Rose play. But as Sparky Anderson said when somebody compared Thurman Munson with the Reds' catcher, 'Don't embarrass nobody by comparing him to Johnny Bench.' Let's give Pete his record and his due. But let's not embarrass anybody, either. Here's to the both of them, Rose as the most and Cobb as the best."