"You Can Feel the Damage"

Though nine days had passed since the U.S. wrested the hijackers from his control, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak demonstrated that his wounds have not healed. In a 40-minute interview with TIME Middle East Bureau Chief Dean Fischer at Uruba Palace, he conceded that he knew a passenger had been murdered when he let the hijackers fly from Egypt, but strongly defended his action. Puffing on a cigar, the President was animated and occasionally agitated as he discussed the dramatic events and their impact on U.S.-Egyptian relations.

On the Achille Lauro hijacking. We learned from the captain that nobody was killed and nobody was injured, so we tried to find a way out of this trouble. We remembered the hijacking of the TWA jet, when the U.S. asked the Syrians to serve as mediators to free the people of the aircraft, and they made no claims on the hijackers. I hoped we could find an agreement like that.

We used some Palestinian people who happened to be here--Abul Abbas. I have never heard of Abul Abbas, I have never heard about his activities. I did not meet him. They told me he was going to Tunisia on his way from Iraq, and he made a stop here. He went to Port Said and contacted the hijackers. The conclusion was that if they freed the ship and saved the lives of the people, we would let them go free.

On learning of Klinghoffer's death. Nearly at midnight (Oct. 9) we heard that an American man had been killed. So I decided instead of freeing these people, I would send them to a country where a responsible representative of the P.L.O. would take them. In one of his statements, Arafat said, "If we receive them, we are going to put these people on trial." Then President Reagan agreed to that (in a statement in Chicago). He changed his mind for one reason or another. But anyway it seemed convenient to send those people to the P.L.O. as a test for Arafat. We had no right to put them on trial here. That of course would create lots of problems in our country politically. Secondly, I wanted to avoid more violence and retaliation against the Italians and the Americans. And my experience said that violence will lead to more violence. That is why I preferred to send them to Arafat.

On whether he lied about when the hijackers left Egypt. I learned that the place where these people were going to (another destination to which the hijackers had been sent before they left for Tunis) had no responsible man from the P.L.O. to receive them. I am not going to reveal it. And I am not going to reveal the means of transportation. But immediately I gave an order to take them back. They came to the airport. I knew that if I left them there, especially after I knew that one man was murdered, we would be accused by the whole world of supporting terrorism. They came back to Egypt. We waited for permission from the Tunisians, and we had to make sure that some prominent figure from the P.L.O. would receive them.

On American-Egyptian relations. You can feel the damage. You know every country has its national pride and its national dignity, so there are different means and ways to extend apologies. If I were in President Reagan's position, I would not go to the media and say, "I apologize." It will never happen anywhere in the world like that. This (apology) is not for the President of the Arab Republic of Egypt, it is for the Egyptian people to feel. They should feel something. To make the people feel at ease again will take a long time. But it needs efforts by both sides. We have mutual interests, so both of us must work hard to overcome this obstacle.

On the peace process. These incidents should put us in a position so that we will be much more vigorous and much tougher in pushing the peace process forward. If you are keen to solve these problems, you will find means and ways to do so. From our side, we are keen to solve the problems. I pray to God that we can start negotiations--before the end of the year--and find a solution to the problem of peace.