An Interview with the President

By Hugh Sidey

Before President Reagan left the White House on Wednesday to spend Thanksgiving at his ranch near Santa Barbara, Calif., he talked by telephone with Washington Contributing Editor Hugh Sidey.

On his feelings about the turmoil. I have to say that there is bitter bile in my throat these days. I've never seen the sharks circling like they now are with blood in the water.

What is driving me up the wall is that this wasn't a failure until the press got a tip from that rag in Beirut and began to play it up. I told them that publicity could destroy this, that it could get people killed. They then went right on.

On why the arms shipments began. The Iranians came to us at first. They wanted ^ to talk about a better relationship. I would not do that with them being a sponsor of terrorism. They said that they were trying to do something about terrorism. We said that if they were really sincere, then they could show us by getting the hostages released. That was an easy way to prove their sincerity.

We got three people back. We were expecting any day to get two others. The press has to take the responsibility for what they have done.

On his discovery that funds had been diverted to the contras. Ed Meese came to me last week and first told me of the possibility of something being amiss. He gave me an idea of what it was. Late Monday afternoon he came to see me, and he said that what he had suspected was true, what he had told me earlier was right. He said, "Here it is."

Another country was facilitating those sales of weapons systems. They then were overcharging and were apparently putting the money into bank accounts of the leaders of the contras. It wasn't us funneling money to them. This was another country.

I knew then that for us not to act immediately would be wrong. I told them we must tell the American people and the Congress. And we did. Ed is continuing to check the facts. I've appointed a little group of my own to look into this to see if we can improve the procedures in the NSC.

On Oliver North. I do not feel betrayed. Lieut. Colonel North was involved in all our operations: the Achille Lauro, Libya. He has a fine record. He is a national hero. My only criticism is that I wasn't told everything.

On John Poindexter. Admiral Poindexter had gotten some wind of this earlier, but he didn't pursue it. He is a fine naval officer. In keeping with that tradition, even if you are asleep in your bunk when your ship runs aground, you take the responsibility. He took the responsibility.

On the press. This whole thing boils down to a great irresponsibility on the part of the press. I told them when this broke that there were a whole lot of questions I couldn't answer. I said to them, "Please don't ruin this." (David) Jacobsen, the hostage who had just been released, asked them not to pursue it.

On Congress. The frenzy in the Congress is not unusual for them. This will not paralyze the Government. It will make it more difficult for me, yes. But I still would have risked it.

On whether he now considers the Iran dealings a mistake. I think we took the only action we could have in Iran. I am not going to disavow it. I do not think it was a mistake. No, it has not worked out the way we hoped. But I don't see anything I would have done differently.

On whether the Iran operation will hurt his presidency. After my speech, some 84% of those people who called in supported me. It was the biggest outpouring of calls they've ever had. The letters coming in are in my favor. This is a Beltway bloodletting. Frankly, I believe that as the truth comes out, people will see what we were trying to do was right. I'm not going to back off, I'm not going to crawl in a hole. I'm going to go forward. I have a lot of things to do in this job.