Interview
By MICHAEL DUFFY
Earlier this month in New Orleans, after announcing $90 million in hurricane-recovery grants, George Bush and Bill Clinton sat down for their first joint print interview, with TIME's Michael Duffy, who covered both Presidents when they were in office. The two men were in a good mood, referring and deferring to each other throughout the 30-minute session and recalling a joint adventure on the high seas. Here are some excerpts:
TIME Your partnership struck a chord with the American people this year. How come?
BUSH Some people don't expect that if you run against each other, you then could ever work together again or be friends. But in my case, it's something that's very easy. Bill's gone out of his way to make me feel comfortable in this work together. On the plane to [the] tsunami [region], he wouldn't take the bedroom on the Air Force plane. I said, "No, come on, you go in there, and I'll take the next leg." "No, no," he said. I guess he wanted to play cards all night. But nevertheless, that means something to me. I'm older, and it was a very great courtesy. So the relationship is fun for me. And you have this feeling of doing something important, doing something bigger than ourselves.
CLINTON Americans like politics; they like debate. They like us to air our differences, because they know we have got to have an honest debate to come to a good answer. But then they also think that debate ought to have limits to it. And I think they believe that for more than 20 years, we've gotten into thinking that people we have disagreements with are people we have to despise or demonize. They think that in turn it has had a boomerang effect on our country. It's kept us from solving a lot of problems and doing a lot of things we could have done otherwise. So I think people see George and me, and they say, "This is the way our country ought to work." But like President Bush said, it's fun for us. I always liked him, and it's been really fun. I've been honored to do it.
TIME What is the one thing you've seen in the other man that perhaps you didn't expect to find?
BUSH President Clinton has shown a certain deference to me based perhaps on me being the older guy. And I appreciate that. It's something I've seen firsthand many times, in very subtle ways, like today, walking in, "You go first." That kind of stuff. We come from an old line, my family, kind of courteous kind of guys, and this means something to me. It's not just social niceties. There are many ways he makes me feel that this is a two-way street and that he's enjoying it.
There will be differences. He's still active. He's still a guy who's going to be in the political arena, and so there will be differences between him and certain members of my family, but that can be handled. It doesn't have to interfere or ruin our personal relationship.
CLINTON The interesting thing is his son is the President and my wife is a Senator--
BUSH [Half-joking] I'd like to speak to you about that in the future.
CLINTON--and we made this work anyway. It's been a joy. I even like the arguments we have.
TIME Like what?
CLINTON How much should we allocate to the Governors as opposed to education as opposed to the religious institutions? There was never any political thing in it, just trying to figure out the right thing to do. We had mini-public-policy discussions, really, as if we were all still in government.
TIME President Bush, has having a son and, President Clinton, a wife, both still at the center of our national political life made this partnership harder or easier to forge?
BUSH It just makes it different. The President asked us to take this project on, and that makes it different. But I don't think it makes a fundamental difference in the personal relationship.
CLINTON When Hillary went to the Senate, I said, "You'll have a lot more fun if you do things with the Republicans as well as Democrats. There are enough differences. You'll never be bored if you are looking for differences. But if you want to get something done, you gotta find common ground." And that is always his instinct and always mine.
TIME How should other former Presidents best use their unique skills after they have left office?
BUSH I don't think there's one formula that fits all. In a book, Harry Truman wrote a chapter, "What to Do with Former Presidents," and he had a suggestion to make them nonvoting members of Congress for life. Well, who the hell needs that? It's ridiculous. I say, "Go out and do your own thing." It's individual. If future Presidents decide to work together, then great. But I don't think one size fits all.
CLINTON I agree with that. Anybody who gets out and pursues a low profile, that's their prerogative. But on the other hand, there are two things happening in the world that make it more likely that our successors will be able to do more things like us. One is that we are living longer and staying in better shape longer. I mean, look at George--he was jumping out of airplanes at 80, and that was unheard of not very long ago. The other thing is that you gotta learn to let go of some things. My advice is pick a couple of things that matter and then leave yourself the flexibility to seize opportunities as they come up. Most of us feel we've had a pretty good shot at life. And we feel we owe our country and maybe the world at least some measure of our time and talents. And if we can do it together so that there doesn't seem to be any political edge to it, so much the better.
TIME Tell me about your golfing in Maine last summer. President Bush golfs very fast--an hour for 18 holes or something.
BUSH No, no, one hour and 24 minutes.
CLINTON I take four or five hours.
TIME So how did that go?
BUSH It was fine.
CLINTON Tell the truth! I was 2 under par after seven holes!
TIME Maybe you should have stopped then.
CLINTON I should have stopped then. 'Cause I shot 81 that day. I collapsed at the end. But I had a really good time.
TIME One more thing: What happened out there on that speedboat the day before?
CLINTON He drove like a bat out of hell.
BUSH It's fast--
CLINTON He's got these three giant engines that were so quiet--
BUSH Until you rev 'em up--
CLINTON Until he revs 'em up, right, and then it was--well, we were practically levitating across the water at the speed of sound--
BUSH Really fast--
CLINTON I thought the g-forces were gonna kill me. I didn't get to drive it, and that's O.K. because we might not be here today to do this interview if I did.